November 6, 2007 - I spent more time with WinDev and am very pleased with the Groupware features.  I had problems at one point early on, but now seem to have no problem and like it more and more.  In Clarion adding user logins and procedure and control security required other third party tools.  I had purchased a couple (Capesoft's SecWin and Gitano Software's G-Sec).  Both of those worked well and I know at least another option or two are available to Clarion developers.  However, I have found implementing groupware in WinDev to be very easy and intuitive.  I would write more on the topic, but I am having too much fun.  Back later..

By the way, most valuable WinDev resource for me right now is:

http://f16.parsimony.net/forum28986/index.htm - WinDev forum.

Ed.

November 3, 2007 - American vs. English.  I was very close to uploading a sample application when I made a couple of discoveries - things I wanted to change.  First of all one of the nice things about WinDev is the variety of Languages available to your applications.  You can provide translations for just about everything in your WD application (provided you have a knowledge of the language you want to translate) including tool tips.  I decided in my first application I would just concentrate on the American language.  Since I was born in the USA and lived all my life here I thought that was a pretty safe bet.  Now, I did notice English was the default but I happen to know that for one thing, date fields are usually formatted differently over there so I stubbornly unchecked English and went with American.  Then I started noticing thing that were still in French.  For example, tool tips for Minimize, Restore, Maximize and Close buttons were in French.  It didn't take me long to figure out how to translate those things.  However, I also decided to try the need "Find Window".  This is an easy way for users to Query and Filter tables so I thought I would try it out.  Well, to my surprise, drop down list of operators like Start With, Is Greater Than, etc, all came up in French.  Somehow I decided to choose English instead of American and what do you know - many things that had been in French when I used American were now in English.  Live and learn.  Ok, so I had that figured out.  Next thing that slowed down release of the sample application (and I hope to soon post a question in the very helpful WinDev forum and get an answer), my Find Windows uses some date and time fields.  The "results" table shows these as 0's when I would expect them to be date or time formats.  Anyway, I have delayed my planned release again while I continue to learn.  I do think I will not use the built in installed for this first application.  I did a test and still found some things I didn't like about the WD provided tool for this purpose.  Stay tuned.. and don't forget to set your clock back for Daylight Savings Time.

November 2, 2007 - MDI versus SDI.  I was a little disappointed when applying some of the many provided skins that came with WinDev 11.  For some reason, the skinned windows didn't look like I expected.  I finally decided to try something different and "Voila" (whoops, that's French isn't it, for Wow") the change was just what I wanted.  For years my databae applications developed in Clarion have been MDI windows based.  This Multiple Document Interface is what I have been using for the longest time.  You can open multiple windows and then switch between, use Windows Tile/Cascade etcetera.  So whenever I used WinDev RAD I always chose the MDI option, not the Standard - Single Document Interface.  Finally, I decided to give that a try and was very pleased with the results.  I am now convinced I will have a little demonstation application ready to post for download by interested parties this weekend.  Check back for the download link - and possibly a front page announcement about my new category pick.

October 31, 2007 - I have had a little more time to work with WinDev and it is now very close to knocking off Clarion as my Category Pick, and possibly personal favorite.  In my little test application I have been pleased at how easy it is do little things like adding automatic calculations, customizing the grid and so on.  In addition, the Reports and Queries are also very easy to use and yet powerful.  I am left with just some nit-picking things which may be overcome without a lot of effort.  Example:  I have some windows that I have set to be not resizable, however, I hvae not found a way to prevent the Maximize button from maximizing the form.  Reports seem to automatically include a little "Powered By WinDev" label, easy enough to delete, but is it really necessary?  This is not a trial version so do I really need to have that extra step?  I found a few minor issues with the included setup, but again, in real life I may use a different installed than the included freebie.  Stay tuned as I may have a sample app for download soon. 

October 29, 2007 - I think I got my date issued for reports resolved.  There are quite a few places in WinDev to set date formatting.  One option was "As Is" and I think I mistakenly used that once or twice when I shouldn't have done so.  Instead, even though I wanted my dates formatted like mm/dd/yyyy it looks like I want the dates "returned" in yyyymmdd format.  I also cannot seem to duplicate my problem with Groupware, so may put it back in this test applicatin - which I am now much sooner to releasing. 

October 28, 2007 - Very close now to releasing a WD app for review, but have had a few things I consider show stoppers.  Before I get to the current problems I am having, a positive comment or two.  I believe that is easier to develop a really visually appealing application with a lot of "built-in" functionality with WinDev than with Clarion.  The IDE is really powerful and the language provides capabilities that will take me a long time to explore.  A lot of things I have found in WD are improvements from what may be available even with third party Clation add-ons, however (WinDev fans don't throw tomatoes at me, yet), I have run into a couple of problems that I wouldn't be honest it I didn't mention them here.

• Groupware - Including user logins and password in WD is very easy to do, but I have for now given up on using it.  When you include groupware in a WinDev application each time your application is launched a login screen is provided.  The default Supervisor password is supervisor, and once logged in as such you have the option to Launch the Application or Configure Groupware.  Now, with my little test application I have not really worried with configuring it.  Instead,  I might make a change or two to the application, then test the project again.  I have on more than one occasion after what I would expect is an unrelated change, tested the application and have the Login throw an error about Hread access, etc, and been forced to remove groupware.  I will worry about that later on.  More important problem, date  format handling.
• Date Formats - this is a show stopper for me.  WinDev really does include a lot of capability for those needing to develop international applications.  You can include a lot of different languages or "nations" in your application.  This means that at runtime Americans would have their regional settings for dates, currency and so on respected, while another user of your application might choose German, French, etc and regional settings would be automatic.  Of course, you could also include translations for field labels, help info, etc.  In my case, I have chosen only to provide for American settings.  This means, for example, I want date field to be formatted as mm/dd/yyyy so that October 31, 2007 would be displayed on screens and reports as 10/31/2007.  For a still undetermined reason I am not getting that consistent result.  On an update form I would get this format, while on a table screen I may see 10/31/____ but on a report the formatting is giving a nonsense date like 20/07/1031.  I believe part of the problem has to do with choices I have made in the Analysis or the Project.  Where I may be using a date format correctly but the format for the date is saved in the database is not the same.  So that instead of storing a date as 20071031 - while the same date is displayed as 10/31/2007 the saved value is being displayed "as is" with the / inserted.  Anyway, I am still trying to figure this out before releasing an application that may be picked apart by both WinDev detractors and defenders. 
• Earlier I mentioned the automatic inclusion of a drop down list and button to "select" a field from another table.  In my testing I have found that the drop down list seems to work fine but when selecting a field I may have highlighted a record in a table view and when I click OK instead of getting the expected record, I instead return the first value in the table.  Again, this is likely something on my end, but worth a mention.

Stay tuned as I continue to learn.

October 24, 2007 - I continue to be impressed with WinDev and will take another break to give an example.  In a test application I am writing as I get to know WinDev I had a "suggestion" from within the program.  Pretty cool, really.  This particular app is a membership type program and I had already been able very easily to include member photos in windows and reports.  In a form to be used to update member attendance and another to update member dues I had a drop down list box to allow for selecting a member record to edit.  WD 11 suggested I change this to a list view and within a few minutes the drop down list of names also inlcuded a thumbnail view of the member under his/her name.  I wish I had thought of that, but WinDev thought of it for me and made it easy to do.  Note: in an example application that uses GroupWare staff photos are included in a login screen, another great idea.

October 21, 2007 - The adventure continues and I am finding more I like about WinDev.  A couple of the things I found most lacking in Clarion, and I think I am not alone in this, was better in line editing in a browse, or list style window and the ability to use a record update form without having to return to the browse screen.  The WinDev implementation of these is, in my opinion, a very nice improvement.  If for example, I have a memo style field and want to edit in a browse style screen, this can be awkward in Clarion.  In WinDev this is automatic - as are many things.  Another example, if you define in the Analysis (the dictionary on steroids) fields from another table used in a relationship, WD will create the form with a drop down list, and also a button with ellipsis to select a value from the other table, like a select button in Clarion.

Coming from Clarion with it's rather sparse IDE, WinDev can at first be overwhelming.  However, the more you use it the more you like it.  At least that is my impression so far.  Stay tuned. 

October 20, 2007 - I had a little surprise or two today with WinDev.  I mentioned the Reports and Query features available and don't get me wrong, they are quite impressive.  However, I did not realize how much including these in a WinDev application would add to the download size.  If you are like me, and maybe a few other people, you make trial version of your software available for download.  These are the days when most people have access to pretty good bandwidth, however, if I am not mistaken R&Q adds about 150 megs to a download.  Whew!  I discovered this when trying one of the other neat features in WinDev.  Instead of a "regular" .exe file I decided to compile an applicaiton for Java.  I know nothing about Java at all so the fact that I could do this at all with pretty cool and the application didn't look much different.  It was just when I started to copy the Jave setup to a USB stick to try it on another PC that I realized my setup was now huge - compared to before inlcuding Reports and Queries, instead leaving  a link to download it.  I also had a problem uninstalling.  One of the included features in WD - which I think is pretty cool, is the setup builder.  It also takes into account a number of the complexities involved in installing applications on Vista.  My own little test application uninstalled with no problems - using the Add/Remove applet in Control Panel, however, the uninstall for Reports and Queries did not seem to work.  The error message, unfortunately, was in French. 

Life is often a matter of looking at Pro and Cons.  I haven't started counting them, yet, as I am still so early in using WinDev.  I am still very impressed with the program.  Check back now and then if you want to continue to see what I discover about WD. 

October 19, 2007

I received the box today and was pleased to find ample documentation in printed manuals.  Naturally, I put these aside for later reading. (just kidding).  The box also contained a very nice T-Shirt, souvenier pins and straps, I guess, for the very important DONGLE. Must keep this at all costs.   Software install smoothly and I was pleased to see Automatic Updating was included.  This is also available in apps created with WinDev as well as the option for users to send feedback or bug reports.  The software is impressive not only in it's well thought out design but in the features included.  I have to say that I was really impressed with a lot of things that are included "out of the box" in WinDev.  My experience with Clarion has been:  if you want this or that feature, you will need to buy an addon from a third party.  So far it looks like WinDev really did think of just about everything.  Some examples follow but get ready for a couple of negatives, too.

• Help File creation - This seems to work very well, generating a context senstive .chm file.  This seems to be very good and I was pleased with it.
• Report and Query - I was pleased with what appears to be a very easy to use, yet powerful Report and Query Builder which can be included in your applications.  In the Clarion world, there are several third party addons that fill the gap here (Query and Report Wizards from Clariontools for example, and Fomin Report Builder, etc). However, here comes a first small negative I guess:  when you provide the ? menu option to let users of your application download for free this great Query and Report tool you may hope they studied French in school.  See the screen shot at:  http://www.dbandsons.com/downloaddialog.gif - I have been told the best workaround is to download and include this in your application.  Am I nitpicking?
• Groupware - Clarion users may think of Secwin from Capesoft or Gitanosoftware's G-Sec. These addons let Clarion users include user login and procedure security in their applications.  Again, this is something WD users get for free.  In my initial tests, this was very easy to add and seemed to work pretty well, however, I later got errors that seemed to be not related to anything I have done - but who knows.  For now, I am just glad to see this is available and will try and figure out what I may have done wrong later.
• Skins and Templates.  I have been impressed with the attractiveness of WD applications that really do make most windows applications look boring by comparison.  What do you need to add to a Clarion application to get similar look and feel?  Cool Buttons and Cool Frames from Purpleswift.  XP Task Bar, Task Panel, Toolbars, etc -  combine all of these and other addons - then maybe you can get an application that looks as Cool as WD applications.  Having said that, I am finding with the Skins and Templates in WD that if you start a project with one Skin and later change to another recompile - all the windows may not look as good as the original skin you started with - I am just starting on this so I could be (and probably am) wrong.

There is a whole lot I have to try out with WD 11 and I am not sure how quickly or how often I will come back to update this site as I will probably be "having too much fun".  One thing I do plan to do is create a downloadable application for interested parties to try out.  I had one WD forum member act like he wanted to pre-approve anything I write or make available for download.  I am not sure if I will take him up on what I am sure was just a friendly offer to help me be thorough or not.  We will see.  Right now I will just say the favorable impression I have of Windev 11 far outweights the unfavorable.  Let' see how it goes.

Ed.